Kids, Reactions, and Maturity
Category Opinion Politics
Bookmark :
In a response to my recent post about Racism, the first poster, "Mike", provided a link to an article about a "social experiement" conducted by a student in her left-leaning school. Here's an excerpt:
Catherine Vogt, 14, is an Illinois 8th grader, the daughter of a liberal mom and a conservative dad. She wanted to conduct an experiment in political tolerance and diversity of opinion at her school in the liberal suburb of Oak Park.
She noticed that fellow students at Gwendolyn Brooks Middle School overwhelmingly supported Barack Obama for president. His campaign kept preaching "inclusion," and she decided to see how included she could be.
So just before the election, Catherine consulted with her history teacher, then bravely wore a unique T-shirt to school and recorded the comments of teachers and students in her journal. The T-shirt bore the simple yet quite subversive words drawn with a red marker: "McCain Girl."
"I was just really curious how they'd react to something that different, because a lot of people at my school wore Obama shirts and they are big Obama supporters," Catherine told us. "I just really wanted to see what their reaction would be."
Immediately, Catherine learned she was stupid for wearing a shirt with Republican John McCain's name. Not merely stupid. Very stupid.
"People were upset. But they started saying things, calling me very stupid, telling me my shirt was stupid and I shouldn't be wearing it," Catherine said.
Then it got worse.
Basically she learned that many students who supported Obama were extremely negative in their reactions to her shirt.
"Mike", the commenter on my blog, made a simple statement before the provided link - "And what is worse, we are passing it on to our kids..."
I understand his sentiment, but I do want to provide some more insight into the reactions during Catherine's social experiment. Let me give some background: I am the (proud) father of 5 lovely children - a girl who is now an adult (18), a 15yr old girl, a 12 yr old boy, a 11 yr old girl, and a 10 yr old boy. We raise our kids to be Unitarian. Unitarians teach children about the major religions in our country from an objective perspective: their history, culture, tenements of faith, sacrements, etc. We also teach our children to respect all religious faiths, and that each person should go down their own personal spiritual path to determine what is right for them. And we carry this into political discussions as well. You need to choose representatives who are representative of most of your beliefs and convictions, and that you'll never find a politician who holds ALL of your convictions, and so on.
So, even with all of this, and even with the best intentions and efforts of all parents to guide and mold them into productive and respectful adults, kids will still be kids. My personal experiencs has been this:
Most kids, and especially teenagers/young adults, tend to go to the extreme with thier beliefs and convictions, especially when publicly expressing these tenements.
This happens even under the best upbringing of parents - it is just how teens are wired. They are beginning to understand and form their own convictions, and as they do they usually have not matured enough to know how to express these newfound convictions without taking them to extremes, especially with peers. So, while Catherine learned a great deal from her social experiment, I believe that we have to take the reactions with a grain of salt, given how teens tend to (over)express their beliefs.
One of my daughters, Kelsey (now 15), has learned this first-hand as well. Kelsey is an atheist - she has given a great deal of thought to this, she has reflected on what she has learned about various religions during her "RE" (Religious Education) classes at church, and she has even attended her friends' churches when she was going down her own spiritual path.
Now, you need to also understand that Kelsey is an "adrenaline junky". She is an equestrian hunter/jumper as well as a barrel racer; she is a scuba diver; she has been to Europe 12 times, often exploring with friends to immerse herself in the culture. You get the idea. I'll let others who know Kelsey comment if the wish to do so. She is a brilliant young woman who is wise beyond her years.
Given all of this, here is an example of her own "social experiment". Now keep in mind we're in the heart of the "Bible Belt". She was in a particular class in middle school that was discussing religion (I think it was a social studies class). One day, when she knew they would discuss religions, she wore her FSM () shirt. She got many questions all day about the shirt (see? An adrenaline junkie!):
"What's that?"
"My deity - the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Praise Cheeses!"
(long pause why the questioner goes HUH? and trys to process that)
Then she explains what that is, and that really she's an atheist that doesn't want to see Creationism taught in Science classes.
Anyway, she discussed - in-depth and openly - about being an atheist, why she is, what she believes, what does she think of other religions such as the various flavors of Christianity, and so on. The usual questions. She answers them calmly and fully. But the cutest response she got was from a young man who has Asperger's Syndrome. He sat next to Kelsey in this particular class. At the beginning of the discussion about Kelsey and atheism, he hurredly raised his hand to ask a question. The teacher called on him, and he excitedly asked if he could move to a different seat. The teacher asked why, and he said it was because Kelsey was an atheist. The teacher said no. The young man then slid his desk as far away as possible from Kelsey, like he was scared he would "catch atheism". It was cute, and Kelsey and the teacher explained it to him more thoroughly after class so he would be more comfortable.
But overall, there were quite a few teens who made disparaging remarks to Kelsey. She even lost some friends because of this; and while this was disappointing to Kelsey, she told me she felt like those wouldn't be great friends to have in the long run if they couldn't accept her as she is.
I wanted to share this story for a couple of reasons. First, I wanted to explain about my overall experience with kids. Second, I wanted to show another instance where kids "overreacted" to a controversial incidence when they encountered it.
Kids, especially teens and young adults, are learning how to be adults. They are usually well on the way to building their belief and convictions as a foundation for who they will be as they mature; they also are experimenting with expressing those beliefs and tenements to their peers. However many of them have not learned how to guage the most "socially correct" level of stating their opinions, especially when engaging with others who do not share their beliefs or convictions. This is the time where they are exploring and learning how to interact and react, and this comes with age and maturity (usually
So yes, the responses that Catherine experienced were "over the top"; but this should be considered with the appropriate framework of understanding that these are teens, and the way they interact tends to be "over the top" in general.
What should happen, with guidance from parents and other leadership figures in their lives, is that these teens will mature and learn how to properly respond; and I believe that if Catherine were to perform versions of this social experiment at different points of her life, the response would be more appropriate the older she gets.
But this is my experience; I would love to hear yours.
Oh, and this will probably (hopefully
Rock







Blog Roll









Comments
I also spoke with my children about the elections and they had encountered the same issue at their school, they said they supported McCain when asked and were promptly labeled as racist, called stupid or whatever.
I think that people passing their fears, hatreds and social inequities down to their children is un-called for and does not help prepare them to succeed as adults and it also just breeds more hatred. I've had to get on to their grand-parents on both sides for making the kids afraid of storms and this and that and other things and only when I confronted them (grand-parents) about it did they even realise this is what they were doing. So I think it's just human nature to pass all of this along to our children but we as parents have to be aware that we're doing it and work to ensure that we don't.
Posted by Keith Strickland At 01:23:14 PM On 11/17/2008 | - Website - |
I don't know who these people you've been talking to are, but they obviously aren't very "liberal."
(Just like a lot of politicians who call themselves "conservative" and then go spend-crazy with your tax dollars.)
The words "conservative" and "liberal" have been so horribly overused in the US during the past eight years that they don't really mean anything anymore. It always makes me laugh to hear talk of a "liberal" political movement or a "conservative" political movement in US politics -- these two things make no sense.
For instance:
Current Republicans in the US are economically liberal, socially conservative, and diplomatically nationalist.
Current Democrats in the US are economically centrist, socially liberal, and diplomatically inclusive.
Posted by mdmadph At 02:51:11 PM On 11/17/2008 | - Website - |
{ Link }
Last week Chicago Tribune columnist John Kass created a bit of a stir by relaying the story of a Chicago teen who decided to try an experiment in tolerance by wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with the words "McCain Girl" to her high school, where Barack Obama was widely favored as a hometown hero. She got something of an ugly reception -- mostly she was told she was stupid, while some fellow students went so far as to tell her she should die.
While it's not terribly surprising -- passions often run high during political campaigns, and people say and do stupid things in the process, on both sides of the aisle -- it should go without saying that this kind of ugliness does not reflect well on the supposed liberals venting it. If nothing else, it makes them look decidedly illiberal in their intolerance.
However, the flip side -- the violence-laced, vile hatred emanating from Obama haters around the country -- is already dwarfing this intolerance. Yet you have to wonder if Kass and the right-wing pundits who made the teen's story a cause celebre will even bother taking a look.
*** end quote ***
My personal experience, in ultra-liberal Massachusetts (we like that label, thanks very much) is that people are intolerant of things they don't understand. People up here may be intolerant of certain far-right conservative attitudes, in part because they never hear those attitudes from their friends and neighbors. If I wandered around trying to convince people assault weapons are needed for hunting, I'd expect to take some abuse. If I told folks the separation of church and state was a myth, I'd expect people to question my intelligence. If I walked around with a white supremacist t-shirt, I'd expect to be called a moron. If I wore an Obama shirt in McCain country (for example, Appalachia), I'd expect to be treated badly. Wearing a McCain shirt in a high school in Chicago (I can't think of a more Obama-friendly audience than that) seems like a similar experiment and I'm not surprised by the results.
We see what we expect to see, we are uncomfortable with the unfamiliar, and we react strongly to political and religious discussions. And yes, Rock is right that teenagers wear every emotion on their sleeves, so they will tend to extremes no matter the subject.
And all that being said, read the link I posted above if you want to be truly disturbed. There's intolerance and unkind words, and then there are death threats and sheer unreasoning hatred. Among all of my passionate liberal friends, who despised George W Bush with all of the hearts and considered him a war criminal and a traitor, none suggested killing him. In fact, I once blogged about the Secret Service's right to control certain symbols in a public place and emphasized that I had no desire to see the President killed. So are liberals 'worse' than conservatives? No. Are conservatives 'worse' than liberals? No. People who hate are worse than people who don't, definitely including those who are intolerant of ideas they don't understand.
In other news, as usual Rich has nailed it @3.
Posted by Rob McDonagh At 04:32:00 PM On 11/17/2008 | - Website - |
Just a thought.
Posted by Richard Schwartz At 01:37:04 PM On 11/17/2008 | - Website - |
Christians, in practice, should not let Kelsey's beliefs change their attitude towards her. If they believe (like I do) that a loving, personal God loves Kelsey and cares about her, why should they react to her beliefs instead of her personhood?
Posted by Keith At 10:45:26 AM On 12/15/2008 | - Website - |
But the subtle aspects of things are hard to even notice on your own, much less change.
You even posted one in this blog post:
"(long pause why the questioner goes HUH? and tries to process that)"
I see that all the time - mild implications that if I am a devout Christian, anything out of the ordinary will befuddle me, and I just won't understand. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that is an underlying implication. And a common tool of the atheists I know when they choose to mock Christians. (I know that not all atheists mock others... just the ones I tend to know. :) )
The reality is that I, like many others, spent years evaluating all paths, and deliberately chose my path with open eyes. Yes, I know of the FSM. I would see the t-shirt and get the joke. I would laugh alongside. I would not be confused or befuddled.
I'm sure you didn't mean that statement to be taken as intolerant or hateful. I'm not offended by it, but I am calling it out as an example of the subtleties that are so hard to identify and change.
My point isn't to call each other out on all our faults, though - it is to raise awareness that, especially as parents, we need to look at our actions and lesson in great depth, as our own flaws will just be replicated in our children unless we are extremely vigilant.
Posted by Dave A At 04:54:23 PM On 11/17/2008 | - Website - |
The level of hate they can spew at anyone who disagrees with them is frightening and you have to wonder where it comes from. It is not based in logic or even consideration of others.
The closest thing to this kind of anger is when you are trying to tell a teenager something. Many times they just don't want to hear it and get very upset about whatever it is you're telling them.
"Liberals": They know what they know and if you try to tell them anything different they will only be too quick to tell you that you are a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, unintelligent, unenlightned, uneducated, "rich"... whatever name is handy for them at the time that they can use to get you to shut up with your opposing ideas.
Posted by Russ Maher At 12:14:17 PM On 11/17/2008 | - Website - |
I would also submit that the bulk of the readers of this blog are more aware of other religions, beliefs, and the various positions about them - or the lack thereof. And I say this because, by and large, "geeks" tend to find out a lot about the stuff they care about.
So, yes - I stand by what I wrote, and I don't think it is far-fetched, unfair, etc. I am relating the reactions of kids, not adults, as experienced by Kelsey - not me.
Rock
Posted by Rock At 12:51:05 PM On 11/18/2008 | - Website - |
As for intolerance, it is usually tolerated if it is aimed at something we agree with. For example, note how we better tolerate anti-Microsoft speech in the Notes community, but not anti-Lotus speech.
So, for us programmers, the logic is:
If we agree
then Tolerate intolerance
else
intolerate intolerance
endif
Posted by Frank Paolino At 03:01:10 PM On 11/17/2008 | - Website - |