Bisconti: "Here to stay! Notes begins evolution ..."
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Alan Lepofsky pointed me (through the BP Forum) to a great article by Ken Bisconti on the IBM website entitled "Here to stay! Notes begins evolution into premier rich client for IBM Workplace". Let me point out one quote from the article that is extremely relevant to you Lotus Geek readers:
So Notes isn’t being replaced by IBM Workplace; it’s becoming part of IBM Workplace, and it’s here to stay.
OK, all you doubters out there. Did you get that? Let me say it once more, with feeling:
[Notes is] here to stay
This is a great article for all of you lingering doubters about the future of Notes, especially the client. As has been reported here and there in the past, the Notes client isn't going away; it is changing, however, for the better. And the best part of these changes is that:
a) these changes will allow the Notes client and Notes applications (notice I didn't say Domino applications - Notes applications, with @Formulas, LotusScript, etc.) to become available to tons of folks who have never had access to them before. We're talking about Linux users, AIX, Mac (yeah, the Mac has a client, but it has limitations), etc.;
and b) the best part is that these changes make sense in order for the Notes client to continue to be a viable solution for those who need a rich client it must evolve to meet the changing needs of the marketplace - not only existing Notes/Domino users, but come on, we want to continue to attract new users too, right? If the client stayed stagnant, then we would not be Notes/Domino professionals for much longer.
Here's what I'm talking about - Bisconti says this about the evolution of the Notes client towards an Eclipse framework...
Eclipse support alone will open the Notes rich client run-time to millions of programmers who haven’t previously developed Notes applications. It’s just one example of how Notes will leverage open-source software in business-supported mode, to expand application possibilities for our customers and business solution vendors.
The upcoming Workplace Client Technology (WCT) is big news folks. Those of you who know me know I am a big supporter of Lotus technologies - but if you really know me you also know that I am not afraid to tell the Emperor (or the IBM CEO, or the Lotus Software General Manager, or...) that he has no clothes. But I want to make something perfectly clear:
I have seen the future of Notes, and that future is WCT.
Don't believe me? Ask another curmudgeon who isn't afraid to tell IBM when they suck - Andrew Pollack. Andrew has had the fortunate opportunity to see and play with the WCT client, and has even been blessed to give early presentations on it (most notably in London and in Baltimore). Andrew and I are so excited about the future of Notes and the WCT that we have included it in the C.U.L.T. shirt theme for this year:
Zen and the art of collaboration
See the logo at the top of this story? That is the logo for this year's shirt. That upper dot in the CULT yin-yang is the WCT icon - you'll understand much more about why it is in there after Lotusphere.
I am sure Andrew will post something on this article as well, and his overall enthusiasm towards the direction IBM is headed with Workplace in general, and Notes/Domino specifically. I know he has in the past, and I am sure he will about this article (or hopefully he will after I ask him ;) ).
You are going to see a ton of stuff on WCT - even a Jumpstart on it - at Lotusphere. This is really, really big stuff folks - and marks another paradigm shift in the evolution of Notes/Domino, much like the integration of what we call Domino was to Notes 4.6. I hope you get to go to Lotusphere and drink the koolaid - it's good stuff, and quenches the thirst of all us Lotus Geeks.
Rock
**Character is what you are when nobody else is around.
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Comments
You don't have to know J2EE, just @Functions and LotusScript.
wow. That's innovative technology.
wow. That's cool.
wow. That's business impact.
So I've learned my lesson.
Axel
Posted by Axel Janssen At 07:15:58 AM On 01/14/2005 | - Website - |
When 6.0 was shipped, IBM said that would be the last "big bang" release. It was taking too long, and customers were having too difficult a time, adopting major significant architectural changes to all three Domino platform components at once.
So, 6.5 was born, as a client-focused release with few server features.
7.0 was designed as a server-focused release with few client features (though there are a decent handful).
7.5 will be a client-focused release with few sever features.
And so on.
So I'm sorry that 7.0 "still suck" but it wasn't the focus of the release and never committed that way. 7.5, though, as Ken says, is on the roadmap and will be an important client release.
Ed. Note: removed errant DEL tag that was messing up the blog **Rock
Posted by Ed Brill At 08:11:59 PM On 01/13/2005 | - Website - |
I know many of the workarounds, my applications are full of workarounds. I am losing some (but fortunately not all) of the RAD capabilities because I have to deal with them all the time but Bens sheet for example has only little to do with Web development.
It is not the first time I read about the newfound focus on Notes/Domino. I just have not found it yet but if it is there, the better it is. Unfortunately I do not think that it is only a question of development resources at IBM.
And Axel, you are really funny but does it really make sense so spend all the time that you save with J2EE development in Notes & Domino blogs?
I am happy that you made the move and can now laugh at me poor old script and formula programmer. I am fine with that because I never considered myself being a good developer anyway (I am more an Administrator). I do simple stuff and for simple things I prefer simple tools. Do I want to code in formula and script until I retire? I don' t know. I want to do it until I have something that works better for me. And what works for me can be broken for you. I just don't care.
Posted by Henning Heinz At 09:40:02 AM On 01/14/2005 | - Website - |
Smartsuite had a long life too so far. This is IBM. They can have a new release every year or two without anything new inside (and yes Microsoft can do that too and I do not like it either).
I am just disappointed that so many people just take it without asking any questions. And Mr. Bisconti could probably sing "It never rains in Southern California" and someone will sell it as "Notes will live forever". Now Notes is here to stay, you won't get what you asked for but you will get 1000 new features that will make you feel like a Fortune 500. One thing I learned that even a roadmap (that other products might not have) do not make you feel better.<trollpostoff>
And now I go to my customers and tell them that the Notes 7 UI will still suck but Notes 8 will save the world because it is based on Eclipse Rich Client. I don't know why because I do neither program in C++ nor experienced Java. I just sell the message.
Posted by Henning Heinz At 07:05:16 PM On 01/13/2005 | - Website - |
Two things I have learned
1) After your birthday party it is not always a good idea to post on blogs if one beer was not enough
2) I am a new feature junkie
I am not sure about this. I want that the default web view does look different because it has not changed since Notes R4 (how many years is that)
I want Java applets that work or something else
I want the Web Rich Text editor to be improved
I want larger text fields and less 64KB limits
I want a better table management for the web (should I say pixels), improved CSS support.
I want that IBM does not only write that MIME support is being improved but that I do also see an improvement in the real world.
I want a better Upload control and V2AttachmentOptions says it all, Notes V2 behaviour.
Why is there still no icon support for uploaded files?
New features. Hm, image support in views would be nice.
I can make a long story short. I do not want new features but I want that features that are already in are being improved. I want the Bens needs to update his sheet http://www.geniisoft.com/showcase.nsf/DominoLimits
Look Ma, not much will change for V7 here. Why?
If V7 is a server oriented release we are definetely not speaking of the web server component.
I was never in doubt that I can write future code in @Formula or Script. So maybe this is new to some but IBM does not have a good rip & replace history (I appreciate that). But I just want more reasons to do so. Notes and Domino are great products and they deserve more than just making it Websphere compatible.
You go to Lotusphere (Sick, I do not) and want to see more Notes & Domino content. I want to see more Notes & Domino in V7. That is my point and even if my beer is gone now my opinion about V7 has not changed.
I am disappointed about what IBM has invested in improving the Notes & Domino core.
@Ed
If customers were unhappy about the fundamental changes in V6 (I have not met one but maybe they do exist) I can only say: "Hey, it is Notes, not Exchange". You do not have to upgrade. You have many options. You can for example upgrade your servers only and keep the client release. The feedback I got was different than yours. I have complaints about the shortened release cycle not about too many changes in V6.
@Rock
I love this software, I earn my money with it and I am proud about the solutions I build every day. If you write about bloated software with features that 98% of the users never use then I am 100% with you. And while the rich client with all its new possibilities is a good thing I still have in mind that there are people at IBM that think that a 5 GB download and install is a must and that a 4-way SMP machine as minimum requirement is good. And if Domino moves to Workplace and J2EE I just want to be sure that it still behaves like Domino, smart and easy and not fat and bloated.
That's all about it and I am happy that I was allowed to express my opinion. Have a nice day.
Posted by Henning Heinz At 04:11:15 AM On 01/14/2005 | - Website - |
Posted by Alan Lepofsky At 02:34:48 PM On 01/13/2005 | - Website - |
However, I have said on numerous occasions (in Lotus Advisor editorials, here, and in sessions) that if you have the desire and motivation to do so it would be in your best interests to add Java (and XML) to you toolkit.
And as for the snide comments about @Formulas and LotusScript being "cool" and "innovative technology" - yeah, they're not sexy. They're not the technology-du-jour.
But you know what? I still say that 15 years after it first came out I can still write solutions for my clients using those "cool" and "innovative" tools that do have tremendous business impact. And like most Domino developers I get challenged all the time in my client sites to try to replace the Domino apps with something else (e.g. .NET, J2EE, SAP, Oracle, etc.) - and I have yet to lose one of those battles. I simply ask them to give me a proposal of the features and specifications they are proposing, without pricing. Then I write my own proposal with the same features, and hand it in. Mine are always cheaper.
And isn't that what true "business impact" is? Isn't "business impact" the ability to satisfy your client's needs in the most cost-efficient and effective manner possible? Isn't "business impact" being able to almost guarantee a high ROI on your project?
So, go ahead and mock. And the funniest thing is that I have signed two new clients this month alone - all for new Notes/Domino development, or for upgrading and improving existing applications. Why? Because there are still large corporations and government interests that realize the true ROI offered by this decidedly "un" cool product.
Rock
Posted by Rock At 07:41:25 AM On 01/14/2005 | - Website - |
Hm, my last comment does not show up. Am I blocked here?
Trying again:
Two things I have learned<br>1) After your birthday party it is not always a good idea to post on blogs if one beer was not enough<br>2) I am a new feature junkie<br>I am not sure about this. <br>I want that the default web view does look different because it has not changed since Notes R4 (how many years is that)<br>I want Java applets that work or something else<br>I want the Web Rich Text editor to be improved <br>I want larger text fields and less 64KB limits<br>I want a better table management for the web (should I say pixels), improved CSS support, I want that IBM does not only write that MIME support is being improved but that I do also see an improvement in the real world.<br>I want a better Upload control and V2AttachmentOptions says it all, Notes V2 behaviour. Why is there still no icon support for uploaded files?<br>New features. Hm, image support in views would be nice.<br>I can make a long story short. I do not want new features but I want that features that are already in are being improved. I want the Bens needs to update his sheet <a href="http://www.geniisoft.com/showcase.nsf/DominoLimits">http://www.geniisoft.com/showcase.nsf/DominoLimits</a><br>Look Ma, not much will change for V7 here. Why?<br>If V7 is a server oriented release we are definetely not speaking of the web server component. <br>I was never in doubt that I can write future code in @Formula or Script. So maybe this is new to some but IBM does not have a good rip & replace history (I appreciate that). But I just want more reasons to do so. Notes and Domino are great products and they deserve more than just making it Websphere compatible.<br>You go to Lotusphere (Sick, I do not) and want to see more Notes & Domino content. I want to see more Notes & Domino in V7. That is my point and even if my beer is gone now my opinion about V7 has not changed. <br>I am disappointed about what IBM has invested in improving the Notes & Domino core. <br>@Ed <br>If customers were unhappy about the fundamental changes in V6 (I have not met one but maybe they do exist) I can only say: "Hey, it is Notes, not Exchange". You do not have to upgrade. You have many options. You can for example upgrade your servers only and keep the client release. The feedback I got was different than yours. I have complaints about the shortened release cycle not about too many changes in V6.<br>@Rock<br>I love this software, I earn my money with it and I am proud about the solutions I build every day. If you write about bloated software with features that 98% of the users never use then I am 100% with you. And while the rich client with all its new possibilities is a good thing I still have in mind that there are people at IBM that think that a 5 GB download and install is a must and that a 4-way SMP machine as minimum requirement is good. And if Domino moves to Workplace and J2EE I just want to be sure that it still behaves like Domino, smart and easy and not fat and bloated. That's all about it. Have a nice day.
Posted by Henning Heinz At 04:05:34 AM On 01/14/2005 | - Website - |
As you know, NDA on this stuff is so tight that it makes the CIA look like the Mickey Mouse Club. I'm told that an addendum or rider or some such legal thing is in the works to let me run my mouth a bit more specifically -- the minute I have it, I'll deluge the blog world to the extent that I'm able.
Suffice it to say:
1. Its already established that I couldn't care less about "J2EE" for its own sake, and don't buy at all the notion that Domion doesn't scale, or that "open standards" as a phrase has any real meaning when talking about building for vendor specific servers.
2. I've come out strongly in support of what I've seen of the Workplace stuff (stuff is as specific as I'll get right now).
3. I'm very excited by the people doing the workplace stuff. It is clear, that Lotus (in the classic sense) is back out on top -- though it is a shame it took so long, as I wish a few people had stayed through the rough times.
4. As of this week, I'm even in favor of the marketing message and to the extent I'm aware of it, the packaging.
Folks, I think we have a winner.
Posted by Andrew Pollack At 04:12:33 PM On 01/13/2005 | - Website - |
Lotus Notes and Domino 7.0 preview: An upgrade with something for everyone
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/swnews/swnews.nsf/n/jmae64pgfa?OpenDocument&Site=lotus
Posted by Ted Stanton At 02:39:08 PM On 01/13/2005 | - Website - |
Ben (1): the way I did it for 2004 was to get my wife to give birth in a Looseleaf t-shirt. Mr. Balaban was extremely generous when he heard about this, and sent us a bunch of Looseleaf Ts plus the much-coveted CULT shirt for 2004.
It's a bit of an extreme way to do it, but there you go.
DISCLAIMER: Bob, I don't mean to imply you have to do this every time
http://www.looseleaf.net
Posted by Ben Poole At 07:57:24 PM On 01/13/2005 | - Website - |
NDAs have had me biting my tongue for a few months (and continue to do so), but what I have seen and worked with in to reagard Workplace client and server technologies is great!
Posted by Mac Guidera At 10:08:02 AM On 01/14/2005 | - Website - |
And there's more - now you can reach whole new audiences. You'll be able to deploy Notes apps to Linux users, AIX users, etc. And you'll be able to integrate them with other systems like never before.
Yeah, Notes 7 isn't exciting. So what? I know that the future will hold - it will mean that my apps I build now will still work. It will mean that I will be able to build new apps using my existing toolset while learning new ones. It means that I will be able to integrate my kewl-ass Notes apps with systems that right now are frankly a PITA to work with.
It sounds to me like you are a "new feature junkie" - what do you want, new features "just because"? I would rather have a carefully planned roadmap that contains new features that respond to needs of the community - not the desires, not something that sounds good in a commercial - the needs my clients have.
There are no perfect products on the market. There are, however, a thousand that are bloated with features that 98% of the users never use. I don't want to deal with that, and my clients don't want to deal with that.
Notes has some warts; all products do. But I will take planned changes and stability over "feature du jour" and instability any day of the week.
Rock
Posted by Rock At 09:09:54 PM On 01/13/2005 | - Website - |
Posted by Ben Rose At 02:03:04 PM On 01/13/2005 | - Website - |
IBM is playing down the notes 7 client adds -- they're not huge, but they're important and really solify the client. You'll find a presentation that lists them on my site if you want.
Personally, having the new jvm, having some of the new mail features, being able to use sql views, and a few other things are a big deal. Web Services is a huge deal.
Posted by Andrew Pollack At 06:48:14 AM On 01/14/2005 | - Website - |
With regards to the features you mention that you wish were fixed (views, java apps or replacements, etc.) I do agree with you - 100%. I want those fixed to, they are a royal PITA. And I do hope that they get there, soon.
But... (you knew there would be a "but", didn't you?
I think that a few of these things are really minor (views, well, it is a huge pain, but you can work around them - even though you shouldn't have to; java apps, I simply don't use them - and iNotes took care of them in internet mail interface), and some are a bit more painful (MIME/X.509 support, attachment handling, a RT editor for the web). But I would rather have them address fundamental security and stability flaws than tackle the "window dressing" all the time. I'm sure you know that in a product development environment you have a huge list of fixes/features to add into a product; you have a set number of resources (read: developers); and you have a set amount of time. So, based on resources and time you "triage" the fix/feature list to determine what will be addressed, what's "on the bubble", and what's put off. Unfortunately there have been many of our desires that have fallen off of those lists - but I am glad that other areas are continuing to be addressed (mail template, calendaring and scheduling, to name a couple).
And you know what? With the newfound focus on Notes/Domino, I am hoping that some of these other things do finally get fixed.
But I do understand what you're saying, Heini - I wind up cursing my screen at those same things many times during development cycles.
Thanks for stopping by, Heini!
Rock
Posted by Rock At 08:02:43 AM On 01/14/2005 | - Website - |