Losing sight of the ultimate goal...
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Last weekend I helped out my sister-in-law's parents with computer issues in their pediatric practice. We recently upgraded the software used to run their practice, and in doing so we discovered that two of their machines could not run the new client software - these two machines were Compaq Presario 5280s running Win98 (this client software required Win2K or above). I upgraded the memory of the machines and installed WinXP - took forever, but it worked fine - until I tried to upgrade the antivirus software. This office runs Symantec Antivirus Corporate Edition 9.0, and after the upgrade to WinXP it failed to run, informing me that it needed to be reinstalled to run on XP. No problem - or so I thought.
For the first machine I ran the uninstall for the AV software, which seemed ot run fine. I then tried to install the AV client again, and it gave me a message stating something like 'Would you like to upgrade "?' If I said yes, it said 'Cannot upgrade ". It is newer than the version being installed.', and if I said no it failed. I could not get it installed on that machine.
On the second machine I tried to run the uninstall, and it acted like it had done it but it hadn't. I tried running "Modify and "Repair" as well (under the hood the install is a msi), but to no avail.
Finally I had had enough, and decided that it was time to call Symantec tech support - and this is where the real fun began...
Customer (Dis)service
I went to Symantec's tech support site and, like any dutiful geek, I searched their KBase for help - to no avail. Then I decided I needed to talk to a real person (ha!). I searched high and low for a tech support number. If you go to this page you can choose home/home office and then "fee-based technical support". I was sure I could convince them that this was a software issue, and even if it wasn't it was worth the $30 to get this working. It asks for what product you are using, and it turns out that Symantec Antivirus Corporate Edition isn't listed - it is an "enterprise" product. So, back to the support page where I chose "enterprise". After drilling through the menus where I chose to contact tech support and the appropriate product, I was greeted with this page. Let me quote you the relevant part:
I have all the paperwork from when my in-laws signed up for Gold support - there was no tech support phone number. In order for me to get the proper phone number, I have to REQUEST it. This was beginning to irritate me, so I decided to call in on the other number for "home" products, and see if I could get a number from them (after explaining the situation).
I called the phone number listed on this page, and I entered what can only be described as an auditory maze-from-hell. I drilled through no less than 11 levels of menus to finally get to a person. I tried to explain the situation, but there were quite a few things that made this extremely difficult. First, the person on the other end of the line barely spoke English at all - let me state that I don't mind being shipped to a foreign call center as long as the service is exceptional and I can understand the person I am speaking with (I would hold a "stateside" call center to the same expectations). But this guy couldn't understand me, and I couldn't understand him either. Then, I told him that I know I was calling the wrong number, and I simply wanted the right number. He would NOT speak to me without gathering my information. So, I caved and began giving him my information, and as I was doing so he did that thing where he interrupted me as I tried to give numbers to him, or spell things for him, and then he didn't hear what else I was saying because he was too busy repeating part of it back to me! I told him to please be quiet until I finish spelling the whole thing, THEN he could read it back to me. After I gave him all the information, he had the audacity to tell me that I had called the wrong number - no shit! - I tried to tell him that at the beginning of the call. I explained what the situation was, and that I didn't have time for them to send me the support number that was appropriate, and could he please give it to me. He went away for 10 minutes, and finally came back -
and gave me the number I had just called.
And now, to the point of this post
I have a belief - a philosopy, if you will - in what the "ultimate goal" should be in business. This goal should start at the top, and should permeate throughout the organization. This ultimate goal is this:
Serve your customers well - provide them with your best, and all else will follow.
Now, I have kept this simple so that it is easy to remember, but the actions and meanings represented by this simple statement run deep. When I use the word customer, I am referring to the person or persons you do work for - customers could be other people or departments in your organization, outward facing customers, distributors, the government, or even your spouse.
"Your best" refers to whatever you give to your customers - it could be services, it could be products, it could be a combination of these, or anything else you may create or procure for your customers. When you write a product, do your best work on it. When you work with a client, communicate fully and set the appropriate expectations. This also means that you support whatever you have provided to your customer - you "stand behind your work".
"All else will follow" means that if you serve your customer in the best possible way, the money will follow. Putting your customers first begins a magical chain of events that is fascinating and wonderful. When you put your customers first, you find that they bring you back for more business, and are gladly willing to pay for what you have to offer. You find that word-of-mouth spreads, and you will get new business because of how you treat your customers. You'll find that you can sleep easily at night, knowing you did a great job. Basically, putting your customers first is "good business karma" - if you have good business karma, then you will have a rewarding career.
Losing sight of the ultimate goal
Unfortunately many companies lose sight of the ultimate goal, especially as they grow larger. Instead of keeping their customers first they begin to serve the profit margin instead, putting it first. What they fail to realize is that the customer is the root of all goodness - profits, good business name, etc. Lose sight of the customer, and you eventually lose everything else - business, profits - all of it. Each of you can easily create a list of companies that have lost sight of the ultimate goal - the telltale signs are obvious. Companies that lose sight of the goal tend to outsource call centers, or cut back on routes, or lay off employees, or a host of other things - all of these are the effects of losing sight of the ultimate goal. These are symptoms of a company serving the profit margin, not the customer.
I believe Symantec has lost sight of the ultimate goal. They have outsourced their tech support call center (and not to a good company, obviously), and they have deliberately hidden a customer-facing phone number. Does this sound like a company that puts the customer first? Does this even sound like a company that stands behind their products? This sounds like a company running away from their customers - avoiding them at all costs, in the misguided effort to "cut costs". This is a company that now serves the profit margin first, and customers are a distant second. What they will soon realize is that they are going to lose customers as well, because profits are the "effect" - customers are the "cause".
I have informed my in-laws that as soon as their contract expires we're moving to a product and company that still has the ultimate goal in their sights. I must say I am very disappointed - I was a big supporter of Symantec, and have used and recommended their products extensively throughout my career. Well no more - I will be looking for alternatives for myself and my clients. As such I welcome any suggestions you may have for a good enterprise AV product for small businesses.
I also encourage you to refocus your sights on the ultimate goal. Even if you work at a large company, take a moment to refocus yourself, within your own sphere of influence. Give that extra effort to not only meet expectations, but to exceed them. After doing so consistently, you'll find you are richly rewarded.
Rock
**It is not real work unless you would rather be doing something else.
I went to Symantec's tech support site and, like any dutiful geek, I searched their KBase for help - to no avail. Then I decided I needed to talk to a real person (ha!). I searched high and low for a tech support number. If you go to this page you can choose home/home office and then "fee-based technical support". I was sure I could convince them that this was a software issue, and even if it wasn't it was worth the $30 to get this working. It asks for what product you are using, and it turns out that Symantec Antivirus Corporate Edition isn't listed - it is an "enterprise" product. So, back to the support page where I chose "enterprise". After drilling through the menus where I chose to contact tech support and the appropriate product, I was greeted with this page. Let me quote you the relevant part:
The telephone number for technical support is distributed when you purchase maintenance and is not posted publicly on our Web site. Request technical support phone numbers.
I have all the paperwork from when my in-laws signed up for Gold support - there was no tech support phone number. In order for me to get the proper phone number, I have to REQUEST it. This was beginning to irritate me, so I decided to call in on the other number for "home" products, and see if I could get a number from them (after explaining the situation).
I called the phone number listed on this page, and I entered what can only be described as an auditory maze-from-hell. I drilled through no less than 11 levels of menus to finally get to a person. I tried to explain the situation, but there were quite a few things that made this extremely difficult. First, the person on the other end of the line barely spoke English at all - let me state that I don't mind being shipped to a foreign call center as long as the service is exceptional and I can understand the person I am speaking with (I would hold a "stateside" call center to the same expectations). But this guy couldn't understand me, and I couldn't understand him either. Then, I told him that I know I was calling the wrong number, and I simply wanted the right number. He would NOT speak to me without gathering my information. So, I caved and began giving him my information, and as I was doing so he did that thing where he interrupted me as I tried to give numbers to him, or spell things for him, and then he didn't hear what else I was saying because he was too busy repeating part of it back to me! I told him to please be quiet until I finish spelling the whole thing, THEN he could read it back to me. After I gave him all the information, he had the audacity to tell me that I had called the wrong number - no shit! - I tried to tell him that at the beginning of the call. I explained what the situation was, and that I didn't have time for them to send me the support number that was appropriate, and could he please give it to me. He went away for 10 minutes, and finally came back -
and gave me the number I had just called.
And now, to the point of this post
I have a belief - a philosopy, if you will - in what the "ultimate goal" should be in business. This goal should start at the top, and should permeate throughout the organization. This ultimate goal is this:
Serve your customers well - provide them with your best, and all else will follow.
Now, I have kept this simple so that it is easy to remember, but the actions and meanings represented by this simple statement run deep. When I use the word customer, I am referring to the person or persons you do work for - customers could be other people or departments in your organization, outward facing customers, distributors, the government, or even your spouse.
"Your best" refers to whatever you give to your customers - it could be services, it could be products, it could be a combination of these, or anything else you may create or procure for your customers. When you write a product, do your best work on it. When you work with a client, communicate fully and set the appropriate expectations. This also means that you support whatever you have provided to your customer - you "stand behind your work".
"All else will follow" means that if you serve your customer in the best possible way, the money will follow. Putting your customers first begins a magical chain of events that is fascinating and wonderful. When you put your customers first, you find that they bring you back for more business, and are gladly willing to pay for what you have to offer. You find that word-of-mouth spreads, and you will get new business because of how you treat your customers. You'll find that you can sleep easily at night, knowing you did a great job. Basically, putting your customers first is "good business karma" - if you have good business karma, then you will have a rewarding career.
Losing sight of the ultimate goal
Unfortunately many companies lose sight of the ultimate goal, especially as they grow larger. Instead of keeping their customers first they begin to serve the profit margin instead, putting it first. What they fail to realize is that the customer is the root of all goodness - profits, good business name, etc. Lose sight of the customer, and you eventually lose everything else - business, profits - all of it. Each of you can easily create a list of companies that have lost sight of the ultimate goal - the telltale signs are obvious. Companies that lose sight of the goal tend to outsource call centers, or cut back on routes, or lay off employees, or a host of other things - all of these are the effects of losing sight of the ultimate goal. These are symptoms of a company serving the profit margin, not the customer.
I believe Symantec has lost sight of the ultimate goal. They have outsourced their tech support call center (and not to a good company, obviously), and they have deliberately hidden a customer-facing phone number. Does this sound like a company that puts the customer first? Does this even sound like a company that stands behind their products? This sounds like a company running away from their customers - avoiding them at all costs, in the misguided effort to "cut costs". This is a company that now serves the profit margin first, and customers are a distant second. What they will soon realize is that they are going to lose customers as well, because profits are the "effect" - customers are the "cause".
I have informed my in-laws that as soon as their contract expires we're moving to a product and company that still has the ultimate goal in their sights. I must say I am very disappointed - I was a big supporter of Symantec, and have used and recommended their products extensively throughout my career. Well no more - I will be looking for alternatives for myself and my clients. As such I welcome any suggestions you may have for a good enterprise AV product for small businesses.
I also encourage you to refocus your sights on the ultimate goal. Even if you work at a large company, take a moment to refocus yourself, within your own sphere of influence. Give that extra effort to not only meet expectations, but to exceed them. After doing so consistently, you'll find you are richly rewarded.
Rock
**It is not real work unless you would rather be doing something else.









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Comments
Posted by Dan Frederiksen At 05:02:01 PM On 04/11/2005 | - Website - |
Alex
Posted by Alex Moore At 02:23:19 PM On 04/11/2005 | - Website - |
Their commercial edition just has more configuration flexibility, can scan network drives, etc - what you'd expect of a commercial AV program really. The "SoHo" license is US$59 for 2 x 2 year licenses, so it's very reasonably priced.
http://www.grisoft.com/
Posted by Marcin Szczepanski At 07:09:56 PM On 04/11/2005 | - Website - |
Posted by Tom At 05:49:12 PM On 04/12/2005 | - Website - |
Posted by Bernard At 08:33:24 PM On 04/11/2005 | - Website - |
Posted by Tim Latta At 10:49:33 AM On 04/12/2005 | - Website - |
Windows based AV usually runs as kernel level and it's a scary thought to run an upgrade without removing the kernel hook which may not be compatible with the new version.
If you'd removed the AV under '98, upgraded the OS and then re-installed the OS; the problem wouldn't be there.
Posted by Ben Rose At 08:49:58 AM On 04/14/2005 | - Website - |
Symantec's ultimate goal is to make money. Heaven help us as Veritas resellers.
For you Trend people. I sold Trend for a long time. I hear good things about the product. I hear nasty things about their support.
We're more focused on Sophos now for two main reasons; first is their support, and second because they support nearly every platform on the planet. <G> However, they do not sell to consumers (individual home users). Their support is excellent - and they have a good product mix. If you have any questions about them, let me know.
Posted by Jon Johnston At 05:19:13 PM On 04/12/2005 | - Website - |
I am in exactly the same situation right now. Calling their support line and trying to get ahold of someone, to give me the gold number.
Posted by James At 02:14:50 PM On 09/12/2006 | - Website - |
http://www.free-av.com/
The interface isn't very polished, but it is serviceable. I like the fact that it is updated every day. It doesn't scan emails, but that wasn't a big deal to me to begin with because most of the client AVs I have seen don't plug into Notes anyway.
The a couple of others that looked promising:
AVG Free Edition: http://www.grisoft.com/doc/40/lng/us/tpl/tpl01
AVAST!: http://www.avast.com/eng/free_virus_protectio.html
I chose AntiVir because I thought the interface was usable, it had a really small memory footprint, and I liked the frequent updates.
I'll keep you posted as I use the product...
Rock
Posted by Rock At 09:46:36 AM On 04/13/2005 | - Website - |
Posted by harkpabst_meliantrop At 03:54:20 AM On 04/20/2006 | - Website - |
Rock
Posted by Rock At 09:01:12 AM On 04/14/2005 | - Website - |
Posted by ajp At 06:08:58 AM On 04/12/2005 | - Website - |